EU Visa System Muffs Amplify Crashed Lufthansa PR

When I was a kid, about the time Julius Caesar ruled, Lufthansa Airlines was considered the creme of the crop for choices in flying about. Today, their PR mouthpieces seem eons removed from past Lufthansa intelligence though. Let me tell you a short tale of airline industry woe that amplifies a much bigger potential problem. After reading this, you may want more than your money back, you may want your old Europe back. Here goes… Part I.

Lufthansa passenger

“Captain, I think I found the passenger in seat A – 34!”

“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.” — Martin Luther King, Jr. —

A couple of weeks ago a former client of ours walked into the office, smacked down €5000 euro (which I promptly returned), and then said; “These people won’t give me one straight answer, I want you to tell people about it!”. Of course we said; “What people?” Calming the client significantly, we agreed to help as we could. What the gentleman wanted answers to, as it turns out, was maybe the biggest PR blunder of a kind we ever ran into. That us a potential problem with the EU’s SIS (Schengen Information System), a big-data albatross for some years now. But where Lufthansa is concerned, their complacency is just endemic of bad airline PR period.

Here’s the rundown.

Back in March a lady named Nino Basinashvili left Trier, Germany via Luxembourg Airport on her way back to Tbilisi in Georgia. Let me be clear here, she had been making this same trip for 12 years, back and forth, to help her daughter who lives in Trier, care for a little girl – her granddaughter. Only this trip was different.

On landing in Munich for a connecting flight to her home in Georgia, Ms. Basinashvili was detained by the Germany Federal Police (Bundespolizei Munich) on a claim she had overstayed her welcome in Germany. I won’t get into too many specifics here, we are still getting answers from various sources on that story, but as for Lufthansa, their part in this horror-comedy needs telling. For now the EU’s SIS I or II system end of this story looks German industrial and technological might – well, it will be a monumental goof id it turns out Europe’s super security computer system cannot even count days.

I personally connected with ALL the people our client seemed to have difficulty connecting with, and like Lufthansa, a few he had not considered fundamental to getting answers. For me, the questions concerning Ms. Basinashvili did not end with being detained for days in Munich, having her money confiscated by German police, ending up in Istanbul, and arriving back home in Georgia penniless and sick – and all over what appears now to be a computer goof. Here are some more questions that came to mind as we tried to reason with our client, and the officials.

  1. If Ms. Basinashvili overstayed in Germany, why was she allowed to board in Luxembourg? This is in the EU? 
  2. If SIS I or SIS II red flagged Ms. Basinashvili for Munich’s Federal Police on exit, why was she allowed to enter Germany to start with?
  3. Did Munich Airport not have in place some measures to ensure stranded passengers have meals, a place to lay down, medical attention? (I still do not have all the answers here)
  4. Why would Federal Police suggest a Georgia National be flown to Siberia, in Russia as an alternative after missing a flight to their home? (Siberia is not only in Russia, but thousands of kilometers from Georgia – maybe maps on computer screens?)
  5. For Lufthansa, is there no procedure to notify anyone or to investigate missing passengers?
  6. Now for the German Interior Ministry – are there more problems with SIS that might have caused Ms. Basinashvili’s plight?
  7. Given Turkey has had some issues in Munich, have any Turkish nationals had similar difficulty, perhaps with SIS?
  8. Have any other Georgian’s been detained on so-called “technicalities”?
  9. Does the company in Germany that helped to create and launch the new SIS II platform have knowledge of such problems?
  10. How many other people over a course of time have been “interrupted” or “fined” over similar compliance issues?

Putin Conference 2012

It’s the Russian Mob – Or Is It EU Bean Counters? – The Quandary Over Visa Travel

As you can see, the list is getting longer here, rather than shorter. And these are all vital questions to ask of EU officials and the others implicated. Let me appraise you further, since we are at this juncture. Almost weekly I research news about the EU where a free visa situation with Russia is concerned. Just about every newspaper on the globe has had a picture of Russian President Vladimir Putin, beside Germany’s Andrea Merkel, or some other EU leader, and a headline saying something like; “Eu Nixes Russian Free Visas over Fears of Shady Mob Figures”,  something to this effect. And WOW! It may turn out the problem is a German computer program now! But on to Lufthansa, I promise.

Andreas BartelsI called Lufthansa Group’s Director of Communications, Andreas Bartels (at left) to simply appraise him of the situation and ask the simple and logical question. An assistant took my call, she was very nice and requested I email my question. The language barrier became a bit of a problem as I took down the email address wrong a couple of times, but in the end Lufthansa answered.

Days later the question; “Does Lufthansa typically take off without passengers and that’s it?”, was given an official case number and then I got this:

Dear Mr Butler,

Thank you for your e-mail dated April 5, 2013 which was forwarded to us by
Ms Hohelüchter.

Due to data protection, we are unfortunately unable to provide any information in view of Ms Basinashvili’s jorney on March 28, 2013. Your kind understanding in this matter is highly appreciated. We remain

yours sincerely,

i.V. Michael Kriegisch

Now, imagine you are a grocery store owner from Kalamazoo Michigan, someone who has nothing to do with publishing, news, PR, or online digital media. I did not ask about Ms. Basinashvili’s specific details, I asked how the system for passenger embarking and disembarking works? I know had I asked this more specifically, I would surely have received; “I know you will understand the complexity of our system prevents us from answering your question in this case”, something to that effect. In honesty, I am disturbed by this response on a professional and global front. No professional courtesy is one thing, a PR and his company failing so miserably to “broadcast” positive information about his company, this is in my view negligent.

How so, you say? Surely Lufthansa Airlines and its subsidiaries has a system in place that ensures passenger status. Whether this consists of the flight attendant on each flight waving bye-bye out the windshield to passengers shackled by locals, or whether there is some passenger logging system that covers the proverbial corporate butt, surely multi-billion euro operations consider every, conceivable, passenger need and safety requirement! Surely.

Lies and corporate run around.

Our answers are NOT forthcoming!

Take A Number – We’ll BS You In A Minute

Filters. Anyone reading this has encountered them. Mine was a very nice 22 year old who has been instructed to simply get journalists to mail their questions to Mr. Bartels. This is fine really, but the problem with Lufthansa is not that the corporation insulates their executives. The problem for this entire case is a system that increasingly only works part of the time. We should all be fearful of “what next”, when all is said and done. Broke airlines will, after all, fail miserably.

I will elaborate on this in another post once the German police get back to me on SIS and SIS II (or once they do not get back). You reading this, you already know air transportation is a mixed bag of miseries these days. And now, to go along, Lufthansa cannot even have the courtesy to give a solid answer. Maybe you should ask yourself sometime; “If I am abducted by aliens while in the hands of Friendly Skies Airlines, will they even tell my next of kin?”

Maybe if you purchase their convenient €24 we give a damn package.

It should be noted, that we did not contact any of Lufthansa’s roster of illustrious PR companies, including APCO Worldwide, Burson-Marsteller or Cohn & Wolfe.


  1. jb says

    Passenger departs Georgia for Germany (or Luxembourg) via MUC. Transporting carrier verifies and confirms visa and passport validity for entry into EU, transports passenger, INS at destination verifies and confirms visa and passport validity, stamps passport and grants entry.
    Passenger departs Luxembourg for Georgia via MUC. Transporting carrier verifies passport validity for entry into Georgia, transports passenger to MUC, INS at transit point (departure point from EU) identifies and detains passenger as over-stayer .
    Again. Airlines validate documents for ENTRY, NOT departure.

    • Phil Butler says

      MUC suggests infraction occurred actually on entry but that INS CANNOT possible determine “overstays” prior to exit. Inconsistencies abound, ergo the reason for most of this dialogue.

      Now as we gather more and more data, this entire system is like a patchwork quilt. SIS I and II, repleted with errors and mountains of spent Euros. Lufthansa and other airlines knee deep in research, IT, monies spent creating the most complex ration of intricacies imaginable. At least this would be true for the average person.

      Frontex, 007 sounding programs like “The Pulsar Programme” or Pilot Project Flexi Force 2012. Certainly not the least of concerns here involve not only human rights and the rule of law, but also efficiency where fiscal matters are concerned (especially critical in these trying times).

      This research done by Dr. Ben Hayes and Mathias Vermeulen will for some (Entitled Borderline), should blow right out of the water the EU and especially Germany’s undying initiative to institute a maze of border and so called anti-terrorism initiatives – even though most have already patently failed tests.

      As for the unfortunate lady who got caught up in this, interestingly within days of SIS II being launched, Munich somehow failed where other Federal Police units succeeded in simply counting the day she was “in country” – like we said, she has been going back and forth for 12 years – then “Wammie”.

      John, you are too an expert, and obviously a highly skilled former executive with one of the most advanced air carriers ever to fly. If you can acknowledge I can be on my ear about 100 hours or research, phone, and email communications – leading to Wonderland so far – I will certainly acquiesce your imminent superior understanding of much process.

      This “Rabbit Hole” has already been traversed by studied scholars, and it looks like billions more will be spent creating a wheel with spokes made of jello. I am compiling all this, in as studious and professional a manner as time permits. Lufthansa could have done as the Munich Airport director of communications did, connected, explained, and no one would probably have been the wiser. The same is true of the Germany Federal Police to an extent. Taking the hard and seemingly arrogant line, it is not always advisable. Maybe they just assumed it was a hoax, or a mistake, or not important?

      “Take a number” …. What chance does a poor lady from a country the size of, ironically the State of Georgia in the United States, what opportunity does she have? And especially when Germany has all her money? They screwed up John, and it looks like at a very inopportune time for the mission.

      We will find the end of the tunnel. As you suggest, maybe there is not one. This is sure though, at least one person snatched by the system, did nothing wrong. That’s enough for me, but believe me I am looking as I can.

      And more to come in part two.

      I sincerely appreciate your efforts to enter into the discussion, and I mean that.



    • Holger Eekhof says

      Danke j.b., bitte lassen Sie mich zunächst sagen, das ich Ihre Meinung hier sehr hoch einschätze. Ich persönlich glaube, das sie hier aktiv werden, weil Ihnen die Lufthansa, die sie einst mit erbauten, eine echte Herzensangelegenheit ist und nicht weil sie dazu von irgendjemandem beauftragt wurden.
      Bitte erlauben Sie mir die wohl in Ihren Augen zynisch klingende Bemerkung, das wir mit “Once upon a time…” hier nicht wirklich weiter kommen.
      Sicher ist, das es sich bei der Lufthansa zu Ihrer Zeit um ein anderes Unternehmen handelte, als sie sich heute darstellt. Dies stelle ich jetzt einfach mal ohne Bewertung in den Raum, erlaube mir allerdings den fliegerischen Hinweis, das es ab einem bestimmten Punkt eben einfach nur noch nach unten gehen kann – insbesondere wenn ganz oben das Personal wechselt.

      Ich finde Ihre Hinweise sehr interessant, und wäre ehrlich gesagt auch froh, wenn ich diese irgendwo verifizieren könnte.
      Wie gesagt, ich kenne nur die Praxis der Lufthansa, Passagiere erst gar nicht in den Schengenraum einfliegen zu lassen, wenn das Visum nicht für den gesamten geplanten Aufenthalt gültig ist. Ich kenne auch nur den Terminus “valid for the trip”. Bitte helfen Sie mir weiter, indem Sie mich auf die entsprechenden Gesetze, Verordnungen, Absprachen hinweisen. Irgendwo müßten diese ja dokumentiert sein.
      Und um ganz ehrlich zu sein: ich verstehe auch nicht wirklich, was INS in diesem Kontext bedeutet.
      Und vielleicht können Sie mir auch an einem anderen Punkt weiter helfen:
      Meldet die Lufthansa die Daten ihrer Passagiere automatisiert an die Bundespolizei? und wenn ja: Mit Hilfe welchen Programms werden die Daten erfaßt, errechnet das entsprechende Programm die Gültigkeit des Visums oder leitet die Lufthansa nur die Nummer des Visums weiter? Und auf welchem Wege werden sie übertragen? Und warum verlangt die Lufthansa dann auch auf Interschengenflügen die Vorlage des Aufenthaltstitels – in den AGB´s als Reisedokumente bezeichnet, bei anderen Fluglinien höflicherweise auch einzeln benannt. wenn sie ausschließlich auf das Datum der Einreise achten soll? Machen dies die check -in Mitarbeiter um Zeit zu schinden und Ihre Existenz zu legitimieren? Dann empfehlen Sie mich bitte bei der Lufthansa als Berater.. dort liegen wahre Vermögen brach :)

      Ich vermute, das wir mit der Erörterung dieser Fragen weder die sicher schützenswerte Integrität von Frau Basinashvili noch die Integrität Ihrer Daten verletzen.

      Ganz nebenbei, und um dies auch in Ihren Augen eindeutig klar zu stellen: Frau Basinashvili verfügte selbsverständlich über ein gültiges Visum, als sie dort illegal inhaftiert wurde, dieser Umstand wird von keinem der Beteiligten – außer dem Münchner Flughafen – in Zweifel gezogen. Aber selbst dort hat man sich inzwischen dazu entschlossen, nicht nur den Rechner, sondern ausnahmsweise einmal den Kopf einzuschalten.

  2. Holger Eekhof says

    Ergänzend kann ich nur noch sagen, das es nur noch eine Möglichkeit für die Lufthansa gibt, sich in meinen Augen noch widerwärtiger darzustellen:

    Wenn sie eine PR Agentur anheuern würde, die versucht, dieses schändliche Verhalten zu covern. Dies wäre dann der tatsächlich oben beschriebene PR technische Supergau. Nein, es wäre der defacto Megagau – anstatt Geld für ein paar Blumen auszugeben, versteckte man sich hinter seiner PR technischen Macht – die man durch die erhöhten Entgelte für die Beförderung noch als Opfer selber bezahlen dürfe.

    Wie krank wären die Unternehmer und Eigner, die solches in ihrem Unternehmen dulden würden?

  3. Mihaela Butler says

    It seems to me that someone from Lufthansa Systems is very interested in this story. And not only in a transitional role.

    • jb says

      @Mihaela Butler: If you want a disclaimer: I worked for LH Group until 2006 which perhaps explains my knowledge of airline and associated processes. I don’t believe that my professional background in any way disqualifies me from correcting misunderstandings or explaining the delineation of responsibilities within the process chain. Probably the opposite, in fact.

      • Mihaela Butler says

        Now we have transparency. I also happen to know that you are a great photographer. :) How is the weather in Mainz these days?

        • jb says

          Now can we get back to discussing the issue on a factual basis, without being accused of being a troll, twisting words and subtly threatened with exclusion from the discussion.
          Play the ball, not the man…

        • Mihaela Butler says

          Passion can be easily mistaken for something it is not, John, especially in written form. You are the expert – if we knew this from the start, there wouldn’t be any misunderstandings in the process. BTW, Lufthansa was lucky to have you, and now, years later, you still are one of their best ambassadors.

        • jb says

          Not the expert – the experts are the individual process owners. I might have a better overview of the entire process chain.

  4. jb says

    “A 14 year old could have understood what I was asking when all was said and done. I actually explained it on the phone to the supposed assistant to their mouthpiece.

    Not a lot of room for ambiguity in my book, but then I cannot vouch for the IQ or competence in English for anyone at any airline. Suffice it to say Lufthansa is International and I called their International representatives. The Group.”

    A communications principle that I’ve always worked to is “If they didn’t hear it, you didn’t say it”

    Appears to be the case here.

    • Mihaela Butler says

      Love your sense of humour, John. Let me paraphrase that quote a little: “If you said it, they ignored it!” ;)

      • jb says

        I can see now that a serious discussion of facts isn’t the focus of this forum, but I’ll make a final attempt…
        Why wasn’t the passenger transported from MUC?
        Because she was detained by the German equivalent of your INS for an assumed overstay.
        Do airlines have procedures for passenger irregularities of this nature?
        Yes, they do. If a passenger in transit no-shows, their luggage isn’t loaded.
        Do airlines have procedures for processing no-show passengers who check in for a later flight?
        Yes, they do. Depending on the flexibility of the fare, you’ll pay anywhere from nothing to the price of a new ticket to fly on a later flight.
        Will an airline give you ANY specific information about a passenger?
        Are the relevant EU laws clearly worded and unambiguous?
        Probably not.
        Are the EU laws open to incorrect interpretation?
        Do I feel sorry for the lady who was the victim of this incorrect interpretation?
        Have I had similar discussions with German and US INS officials?
        Yes, but both my German and English are immaculate, my IQ is fortunately higher that that which you attribute to airline employees and I make sure that they understand what I’m saying.

        • Phil Butler says

          “If” and, for supposedly exceeding the allowable number of days she could stay in Germany with her particular visa type. Now, twist what I say once more John. Do you imagine after 30,000 articles I have no Troll measures?

          I did not attribute any IQ numbers to airline employees, you did. If I ask my 4 year old what 2 and 2 are, he can already answer correctly. Look at it this way, you essentially asked me to show you all the evidence so??? I said I would reveal what I know in my own time. This includes the particulars, some of which are already linked to at The Epoch Times.

          By the way, this news site is not a democracy, I own it.


    • Phil Butler says

      John I have no problem publishing ALL these emails, but I will do so on my time-frame. I know you understand. The email in question has the aforementioned question in “Bold” – on the phone I explained the situation and the logical concerns. If these people are that stupid, as stupid as you suggest, we need to seek out good horses in the field from now on.

      Of course, I could be very very very very very wrong. I am typing what I believe to be true at this instant only, and asking questions anyone should be competent enough to ask. I never asked for this lady’s story, I have it.


  5. Phil Butler says

    Ahead of you on those counts JB. Potsdam and Frankfurt essentially admitted their computer systems made a mistake, hand counting the number of days she was in Germany on this visit. Munich official supposedly hand counted as well, then another schema was applied for how Germany rules Schengen.

    Too lengthy and complex for here, but part of my email to Lufthansa discribed the situation, the other part, in bold, framed the question; “Does Lufthansa typically take off
    without passengers and that’s it?” Of course that is out of context a bit too, a 14 year old could have understood what I was asking when all was said and done. I actually explained it on the phone to the supposed assistant to their mouthpiece.

    Not a lot of room for ambiguity in my book, but then I cannot vouch for the IQ or competence in English for anyone at any airline. Suffice it to say Lufthansa is International and I called their International representatives. The Group.

    SIS I has been flawed since day one. Wernher Von Braun and his team built the Saturn V and sent it to the moon and back in less time – over four decades ago. The point of the article is as much how “guilty” or incompetent it makes a company look to waste a PR and news editor’s time, as much as it is about procedures.

    Point is, I never assumed Lufthansa was responsible for any harm really, just as no implication was really made toward Munich Airport proper. The Schengen system, at least as it is operated at Munich in this case, seems to have some issues. So ————————————— Where else are there issues?

    I hope you see my concern. Still waiting answers from Federal Police and the Ministry of the Interior on a lot of questions about the system. If you were on my end of the phone, you would find it all a bit farcical. Tech expert at major airport notified superiors in Potsdam of potential computer software problem – Potsdam officer physically counts the number of days this lady was in country – innocent. Frankfurt – innocent. German embassy in Georgia has one directive, Munich says they use another. It is kind of a mess.

    We have about as many different answers as there are cities in Germany. Not quite, but about. What does that tell you for a few million people flying about the friendly skies? Latest news has it, Lufthansa may have provided the data for Schengen on this passenger. Working on that now.

    More in an update later.



  6. jb says

    What was the precise wording of your question? Data protection laws in Germany are strict and rigorously enforced. Even accessing specific passenger data without cause results in immediate suspension and invariably dismissal.
    Did the lady get a receipt from the airport police and what was the wording on the receipt?
    Which systems are you referring to – the operational procedures for handling passenger irregularities or the Schengen visa procedures (which appear to have been defined ambiguously and are open to misinterpretation (as would appear to be the case in this matter)?
    I think you’ll find hat there are standard penalties for immigration infractions and the GDP of a passenger’s country of citizenship won’t be factored into them.

  7. jb says

    This is how it most likely happened.
    Passenger crosses the green border between Germany and Luxembourg. No passport control – it’s Schengen, you drive right across the border
    Passenger boards flight in Luxembourg, baggage checked through to final destination, boarding passes issued for 2 flights. No passport control, it’s Schengen, you go straight to the departure gate.
    Passenger gets to Munich, goes through passport control (leaving the Schengen zone), is detained for exceeding stay in Germany – whether rightly or wrongly isn’t the core issue here.
    Lufthansa closes the flight, pages the missing passengers, classifies passenger as a no-show and doesn’t load her checked baggage. This is standard procedure for virtually all airlines.
    All airlines typically take off without passengers. No-shows run at anywhere from 5%-10% for a whole range of reasons – late at the airport, sudden illness, fell asleep in a corner and didn’t hear the boarding call, lose track of time in the duty-free shop, detained by authorities plus a whole swag more.

    I’m not sure what you asked Lufthansa, but “Does Lufthansa typically take off without passengers and that’s it?” isn’t really the same as asking “How does the system for passenger embarking and disembarking work?”.

    But is it really Munich Airport’s responsibility to provide lodgings for and feed a passenger who happens to miss a flight?
    Is it really Lufthansa’s responsibility to provide lodgings for and feed a passenger who didn’t present herself at the gate at the time specified on the ticket?

    It appears that the passenger may have a case against the Bundespolizei, but to flag this as a PR disaster for the airline is pushing it a bit…….

    • Phil Butler says

      @JB, Points all well taken. Thanks for taking your time to comment too. I will have a look at all points when time permits. Off the cuff though, and maybe I did not make this very clear, my question to Lufthansa was simple. “Is there a procedure?” All else was background.

      We are discovering a lot more about these systems than frankly, we ever really wanted to know. The outcome of this is not yet in sight. My concerns as a journalist and citizen are for the potential for harm. If SIS is flawed, there is no telling how much damage may have already been done. For one thing, and I did not touch on this too much in this article, this lady’s money was taken by the German officials. €660 euro was confiscated on penalty of jail and confiscated luggage. The officials suggest this money was very much like a bond in the US for traffic violations.

      The per capital income of the Republic of Georgia is about $5000 dollars a year. Also, people from some emerging democracies are deathly afraid of police, the system, and under extreme duress – moreso than perhaps you or I. What are the chances an old lady from Georgia just happens to know someone who knows someone who hired a PR before? What are the chances the editor of a news outlet decides to just call to question these things? For Free!

      I leave these thoughts with you JB. So you know, Lufthansa came and read this obviously. Early this morning their communications arm mailed me back telling me the same thing and closing the case number. They reiterated that they cannot release private data AGAIN.

      When companies cannot even understand simple questions….. Nobody asked for any personal data, we asked for corporate data about Lufthansa.

      I just hope nobody else falls into this trap.


    • Holger Eekhof says

      Ist es Aufgabe des Münchner Flughafens für illegal verhaftete Passagiere zu sorgen?

      Ein jeder, der sich im Sinne der Optimierung seines Geschäftsbetriebes an einer entsprechenden Automatisierung beteiligt, trägt auch die Verantwortung dafür, das durch seine Investitionen keine Unschuldigen zu Schaden kommen. Im hier vorliegenden Fall ist dieillegale Verhaftung vermutlich darin begründet, das ein fehlerhaftes Computerprogramm nicht in der Lage war, die Visaanalyse korrekt durchzuführen – zumindest führen Tests mit dem bundesweit verwendeten Programm merkwürdigerweise zum identischen falschen Ergebnis.
      Deshalb allein wäre der Airport München mehr als nur verpflichtet gewesen, alles in seiner Macht stehende dafür zu tun, um zumindest gesundheitliche Schäden bei diesem Programmtest am lebenden Objekt zu verhindern.

      Ist es die Aufgabe, der Lufthansa, sich um die illegal verhaftete Passagiere zu kümmern?

      Definitiv ja. Denn der einzelne Reisende ist nicht in der Lage, das entsprechende Gefahrenpotential abschätzen zu können. Einzig und allein die Luftfahrtgesellschaft ist dazu in der Lage. Ob die Passagiere nun bei einer Zwischenlandung in Kuweit oder bei einer Zwischenlandung in München illegal festgenommen werden, für mich ergibt sich dort in der Sache erst einmal kein Unterschied.
      Die Lufthansa erfaßt vor einer Einreise ins Schengengebiet die entsprechenden Daten – und ist auch dazu angehalten, insbesondere die Visagültigkeit bis zur geplanten Ausreise vor Antritt der Reise in den Schengenraum zu prüfen. Sie weiß also bereits im Vorfeld, das sich die Passagiere legal in Deutschland aufhalten werden. Folgerichtig ist sich die Lufthansa im klaren, wenn Passagiere nun aufgrund angeblich nicht gültiger Visa inhaftiert werden, das dies nur illegal und wider dem geltenden Recht sein kann.
      Erfährt sie nun also von einer solchen Verhaftung, und handelt nicht im Rahmen der ihr obliegenden Sorgfaltspflichten und unternimmt nichts dagegen, das die Ihr anvertrauten Menschen zu Schaden kommen, dann macht sie sich in meinen Augen schuldig.

      Noch schlimmer wäre es allerdings, wenn das entsprechende System zur Visaanalyse der Lufthansa fehlerhaft wäre und sie falsche Ergebnisse an die Bundespolizei gemeldet hätte – dann wäre die Lufthansa sogar der Initiator dieser illegalen Verhaftung.

      Deutsche Airlines als europäische Blockwarte ….eine alptraumhafte Vorstellung.

      Wobei ich persönlich persönlich die Verwendung als menschliches Schutzschild würdevoller finde als die Verwendung meiner Person als Wischmob für einen versieften Flughafenfußboden.

      • jb says

        There appears to be a fundamental misunderstanding of the roles of 3 of the participants in this process:
        There is a clearly defined contract of carriage between the passenger and the airline – we will transport you and a specified amount of luggage between points A and B. For this you give us money, ensure that that your travel documents are valid and present yourself for transportation at the time specified in your ticket. The airline is required to ensure that the passenger’s travel documents are valid for the journey i.e. does he/she have permission to enter the country of immediate destination? Identifying overstayers is NOT the airline’s role.
        That’s the role of federal agencies such as the Bundespolizei who appear to have got things wrong. Would they have notified the airline that they were holding one of their passengers? Probably not.
        Munich Airport’s role is to provide the infrastructure for air transportation (runways, carparking, terminals) which is then leases to airlines and federal agencies.
        Of course, providing this factual clarification probably classifies me as a Troll. So be it…

        • Holger Eekhof says

          Ja, die Lufthansa ist dazu verpflichtet, die entsprechenden Visa zu überprüfen, ansonsten werden die Reiseantretenden in Georgien erst gar nicht in den Schengenraum befördert. Dies gilt auf jeden Fall für die Gültigkeit des Visums zwischen dem dort aufgeführtem Hin – und Rückflug. Wenn Sie dort anderer Meinung sind, warum also werden diese Menschen dort gar nicht erst von der Lufthansa gebordet? Vielleicht ist dies tatsächlich nicht die Rolle der Lufthansa, aber es ist von Ihr geübte und wohl auchvon Ihr geforderte Praxis. Ich bin mir zumindest sicher, das eine Fluglinie wie Ryanair dies nicht tun würde, wäre es ihr nicht zwingend vom Gesetzgeber vorgeschrieben.

          Im übrigen übersetze ich das inzwischen auch von mir so gefunde “valid for the journey” als “gültig für die Reise”. Meine Reisen enden normalerweise wieder am Ausgangspunkt.

          Ob dieses in Vorwegnahme der geplanten Gesetze geschieht, die Haftbarkeit der Fluggesellschaften gegenüber den Behörden durchzusetzen, ob als Bargainingelement um eben eine gesetzmäßige Haftung zu verhindern, oder auch nur aus vorauseilendem Gehorsam, entzieht sich a) meiner Kenntnis und b) ist in meiner sicher nicht juristischen Sicht aber auch gleichgültig.

          Meines Wissens geht die Lufthansa sogar soweit, den mit Ihr zusammen arbeitenden Reiseagenturen eine solche Visprüfung aufzuerlegen. Aber Sie können ja gerne mal versuchen, bei einem mit der Lufthansa kooperierendem Unternehmen in Georgien einen Flug in den Schengenraum zu buchen, ohne über einen entsprechenden Aufenthaltstitel zu verfügen.

          Was mich einfach an dem Verhalten hier ärgert, das bisher noch nicht mal ein Blumenstrauß bei der Betroffenen ankam. Jeder Kleinkriminelle ist gut beraten, dies in die Wege zu leiten, sobald sein Opfer gesundheitlich geschädigt wurde. Nun ist die Lufthansa kein Krimineller, sondern ein Globalplayer, der sich aus all diesen Fragestellungen mit dem Datengeschutz heraus ziehen will – und sich einen Dreck um die Opfer schert. Und dafür auch noch höhere Entgelte als die Konkurrenz verlangt. Dies ist schlichtweg widerwärtig.
          Sicher ist ferner, das die Lufthansa Kenntnis von der Verhaftung einer ihrer Passagiere hatte. Und sicher ist auch, das die Lufthansa Kenntnis über den Verhaftungsgrund hatte. Ich bezweifle, das die deutsche Lufthansa Gepäckstücke, die Ihr anvertraut werden, auf bloßes Verlangen von Dritten aus Flugzeugen bzw. Abfertigungsmechanismen entfernt und diesen aushändigt. Zumindest hier bin ich mir sehr sicher, das eine Begründung für dieses Ansinnen gegeben werden muß.

          Was die technischen Sicherheitseinrichtungen betrifft und das verleasen an die Bundespolizei, dies weiß ich nicht, in welcher Form dort die Nutzungsrechte vergeben werden. Ich denke, wir sind uns aber dahingehend einig, das für alle solche Systeme, die eine Gefährdung elementarer Rechtsgüter darstellen können, ganz besondere Sicherheitsregeln aufzustellen sind. Das diese besondere Kontrolle durch den Verleasenden, Vermietenden, oder einfach Finanzierenden absolut nötig ist und erst recht durch denjenigen erfolgen muß, der diese Einrichtungen zur Verfügung stellt, um seine Betriebsabläufe zu organisieren und so den finanziellen Output zu optimieren.

          Ich verleihe ja auch nicht mein Auto an einen ungeübten Fahrer, um es durch eine defekte Handbremse ganz langsam in eine Menschenmenge hinab rollen zu lassen – auch wenn gemessen an der Gesamtzahl der Menschen wohl nur wenige Knochenbrüche dabei heraus kommen würden. Und gehe anschließend nach Hause, anstatt mich um die Menschen zu kümmern.

          Wen ich weiß, das so etwas geschehen kann, ist es meine erste Pflicht, für einen solchen Fall Vorsorge zu treffen. Ansonsten handle ich mehr als grob fahrlässig.

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